"Further discussion, requesting support, etc, should be taken to the general forums."

I should have yelled louder in the ticket.
I am opposed to the deletion of the unoblitable zone. There are several reasons for this. The first is the ease in which it allows players to obtain high level production planets. At some time or another, everyone needs to gain more planets. Inside -1000 < x,y,z < 1000 provides a great opportunity to obtain those production planets quickly.

The second reason that it adds another dimension to gameplay. It offers players a choice. Do I want to take these easily accessible high production planets that it may be difficult to get rid of, or do I want to suffer lower production? To me, the choice is easy. As long as you gather your resources regularly, there is little to lose. Although these planets are known to many, few are willing to be "stuck" with them. I have no problem keeping production planets that no one else is willing to take because they are producing the maximum amount of resources possible AND I don't have to clear nearbys. There is the "danger" of someone taking the planets and causing you to lose some production, but if you collect regularly, this is just as and perhaps even less likely to happen to a planet in the wild.

I believe the unoblitable zone is an important aspect of gameplay that helps retain and entertain players for the reasons above. It gives every player, both new and old the opportunity to obtain very high levels of production with relatively low start up costs. This can be very valuable to new players that do not have the ability to probe or buy high level production planets.

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Failure is not an option, it comes bundled with your Microsoft product.
Just when you finally make something idiot-proof, someone goes and builds a bigger idiot.
http://www.something.com

I think cork has some good points- one thing I would change is have planets not pop up in it anymore though, ran across a newb system within it and almost captured the lovely 10x planets- I don't mind picking up some 20x in there but don't want to shoot myself in the foot with some 10s

"The second reason that it adds another dimension to gameplay. It offers players a choice. Do I want to take these easily accessible high production planets that it may be difficult to get rid of, or do I want to suffer lower production? To me, the choice is easy. As long as you gather your resources regularly, there is little to lose. Although these planets are known to many, few are willing to be "stuck" with them. I have no problem keeping production planets that no one else is willing to take because they are producing the maximum amount of resources possible AND I don't have to clear nearbys. There is the "danger" of someone taking the planets and causing you to lose some production, but if you collect regularly, this is just as and perhaps even less likely to happen to a planet in the wild. "

Here you highlight my biggest problem with the unoblitable zone. Yes it is a choice, but it is an all or nothing choice. If you opt for these planets you have planets that nigh on everyone knows the co-ordinates for, but that very few want to take. Even high resources/point planets in this area are often unattractive because there are many that are x13-16, as opposed to the x20 greens that are available via the Warp. Normally this would not be an issue as you would capture the planets and then obliterate or leave them, taking the points that you rightly deserve. However in the instance of the non-oblit zone you are stuck with them, here we come to the crux of why they are not attractive for most players. In effect what I see the non-oblit zone as is an easy opt out for players that are unable to play with a higher level of activity. They can hold onto as many x20 planets as they want because very few other players want them.

"I believe the unoblitable zone is an important aspect of gameplay that helps retain and entertain players for the reasons above. It gives every player, both new and old the opportunity to obtain very high levels of production with relatively low start up costs. This can be very valuable to new players that do not have the ability to probe or buy high level production planets."

On the other hand, this I wholeheartedly agree with. It is an important aspect of game play that has the potential to allow new players a chance to set themselves up nicely with low start up costs, the advantages of this are obvious. There are some that would argue this is far easier than "the old days" and they have a point, but the game has got progressively easier over time and I personally don't think this is a bad thing as it engenders the game to new players. Growth is something I believe we can all agree is naturally good for the game.

My issue comes when these new players are no longer new players. What happens when these new players get 3 or 4 months down the line, suddenly have more than enough resources and the will to compete actively, but they're stuck with all of their production planets in the unoblitable zone and find this unsustainable? You can argue that this is part of the choice facing new players, but I think it is an unfair catch 22. It is unreasonable to expect a new player to fully understand the tactical implications of the unoblitable zone as soon as they enter the Real Arena - even if they have joined a clan and recieved instruction. How many here can say they knew fully what they were doing within a few weeks, even their first round? That number will be slim. The unoblitable zone in its current form is a very great short term advantage for new players, but with a far greater long term deficit.

Another side of gameplay that I haven't yet seen discussed to do with this is the extended "battlezone" that I believe it was originally designed to give. Personally I like the idea of players fighting over x amount of x20 planets in a very small space; I think such things can only promote activity. This is an idea that was definately in the best interests of the game, but I feel it has not been implimented properly.

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Make your move, reindeer games.

The short version of what I'm saying here is that I believe that this is definately a two sided arguement.

On the advantage side (primarily) is the fact that it gives a new dimension to gameplay and offers new players a quick short term advantage in access to high production planets that at the moment does not carry a great deal of risk. Some would consider this an unfair advantage.

On the disadvantage side is it can offer players virtually assured production because other players do not want those planets. Movement has always been one of the keys to survival in SL, the unoblit zone is almost an easy way around this. This offers an unfair advantage to players based on what I see as a mechanical fault with the game.

Also, it can give an unfair disadvantage to new players who don't fully understand the implication of their actions if they go for the planets in the unoblitable zone.

My key problem here is that I do not see either side of the arguement as totally dominating the other; both have merit and therefore I don't beleive either side should be completely discarded. Therefore I propose the following. I realise it is not fool proof, but I think it goes some way to being better than the current system we have.

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Firstly I fully accept Cajins idea of not having planets spawn in the zone, that's unfair on many and can end up shooting old players in the foot because they are caught unawares. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought part of the original idea was that planets would not spawn inside the unoblitable zone.

Secondly. The zone remain unoblitable. However that players are given the right to leave these planets if they so wish. I think this solves many of the problems that we have; you are still given the choice of using the higher production planets in the zone, but now there is more risk to them if you do not gather regularly as the planets are no longer binding and therefore more attractive to the general player, but if you believe the strategy to still be the correct one, the planets will still be there - therefore still offering this second dimension of game play to all.

New players still have the access to these higher production planets to help them set up - however they lose the effective immunity that comes with them now and also, should they remain active and wish to play in a different style, they are not bound to a strategy that they may have chosen without proper information two weeks into the game. It would also encourage players to capture more planets in this area, thereby fulfilling the original idea of creating an extended "battlezone" of planets.

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Thoughts and opinions?

__________________________
Make your move, reindeer games.

This is crazy but here goes-
1. Let the system obliterate planets in this zone at random. This way players who have become lazy on how they play the game will not have them forever.
2. Set this zone up as more of a shell then a filled space. No planets in the old 100 +/_ region except 0:0:0 and the no oblit zone outside of that and inside the current boundries. Because planets in the current zone will thin out, just leave those planets there and let the system thin them out.

To implement the changes, for any planet obliterated by the system would one would be created in the "shell" area that is a 20x.
Have one round for players to "leave" the current 100 +/- area with a leave option for one round and after that it is at risk to keep such planets due to the radom loss of planets in this region.

Can't we at least get rid of the SP's in this region?

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"Is not easily provoked"
Translated:
It is not good to wake a sleeping bear

I also think it would be best if planets did not spawn in this area.

Random obliteration would not be nice to the people that have built homeworlds in this region. How many SPC planets are there in this region? Of course there are some hw SPC, but that is another issue. I was under the impression that most of the planets in this region were player owned.

Don't forget that while by no means easy, it is usually not too difficult to get rid of these planets. If you have 300k or so defense on a planet, I'd take it for the points. Or you could do what and others have done, pay people to take them. I'd take planets at 100k a piece though others are willing to do it(historically) for cheaper. If a clan mate asked me to take them, I would for free. I hope most of us have clan members as nice.

I don't like(yet) the idea of the ability to leave the planets. This could prevent newer players from taking advantage of the planets. If left for SPC, the defense would surpass a level that would prevent newer players from taking a large number of them. I think I would prefer the ability to transfer a planet to another player over the ability to leave them. This way, if someone is willing to take them off your hands, it is easy to give it to them, but it allows newer players to be able to amass them.

Right now, I favor changing the size to -100 < x,y,z < 100, preventing other planets from spawning in this area, and remaining unoblitable.

Edit:
What would it be like if leaving a planet left 0 defense on the planet?

__________________________
Failure is not an option, it comes bundled with your Microsoft product.
Just when you finally make something idiot-proof, someone goes and builds a bigger idiot.
http://www.something.com

ive alwyas thought that if you were to not wholy keep a shell region, but have it set up that from the 100+/- a genorously filled space full ofx20 planets, orbiting a star at 0.0 in a 3+/_ sphere (just for the heck of it){liek the center of the galaxy} and supposedly because of the sun there is tons of energy to have production increase greatly,
but also because of the proximity to the star there is a total cap to teh production of planets, like the way they have it set up were only 16,400,000(or what ever the number is) for troops on reg planets, have the total capacity for the planets to hold be somewere like 1 mil with a x30 production, that way they are worth taking even by higher level players, but are ultimatly not viable as homeowrlds, since 1 mil troops at x30 or x40 (or whatever is decided,
but something that makes it worthwhile) would only be around 16 mil defence, resonably easy to take, but playing Musical planets would get old after a while, so just having the cap i think woul dbe sufficient fro someone to farm regularly



omg... is that one long sentence? *is glad english teacher isnt around anymore*

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When the lamb opened the fourth seal, i heard the voice of the fourth living creature say,"Come!!" i looked and there before me was a pale horse!!! Its rider was named Death and hades followed close behind.

Ok, based on this, My suggestion would be as follows:

1. All planets in unoblitable zone be x20, therefor no new planets.
2. keep it unoblitable and maybe decrease the size of the zone but not needed
3. Once you have captured the planet you hsve a week of required time, after thar week you are free to leave the planet or keep it, but not tranfers it

That's not a bad shout. I'm not sure you need to decrease the size if you're making it leavable, but at least it offers you a calculated choice in that you'll ahve to hold the planets for a week. I quite like that.

__________________________
Make your move, reindeer games.

It is worse right now then musical chairs played with planets.
No chairs are even removed, planets spawn in the region. It has become a safe haven for lazy players.
Believe me, at times I am tempted to create another account, feed that account with troops and take twenty planets and close the account just to get of planets in that area.
But for each one taken out that way a new one is spawned to take its place along with the new ones being added by the system.
Something needs to be done for sure, but what seems to be the debate.

Added:
There needs to be more of a risk for these planets. Right now it is more of a safe haven then an area of risk. It is too accessible to do a HW attack on a planet in this region. Any attack will beset with pirates, and the like.

__________________________
"Is not easily provoked"
Translated:
It is not good to wake a sleeping bear

The "Added" is my key concern.

That is why I believe the "leave" option is probably the best solution to this issue. At least that way you leave the planet in place so people can resume that startegy if they wish.

__________________________
Make your move, reindeer games.